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Novation Automap and AAX Plugin Support

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Taylor
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Novation Automap and AAX Plugin Support

Hello all,

Instead of posting Novation's official stance on this subject in another thread where it may not be easily found, I have decided to create a new post.

As I said 48 hours ago, a meeting was called to discuss the future of Automap and AAX Plugin support.
Below is the resulting response from Paul Whittington, the Senior Product Manager for Automap.

Thank you once again for your exceptional patience in this matter.
Paul and myself will be here to field any questions you may have, so please feel free to get in contact.

Sincerest regards,
Taylor

----

Novation Automap and AAX Plugin Support

 

Here at Novation we have been wrestling with the AAX and Automap problem for quite some time now. We are aware that there were inquiries about this as far back as May last year and will admit that it has not had our full attention over this period with all the myriad of activities going on here. For this we apologise. What I can say is that we are seriously focused on this issue right now and what to do about it.

We have uncovered the complexity of the problem. Basically Automap works by 'wrapping' plugins which involves adding a small piece of code to each one to allow the Automap server to talk to it. AAX plugins are code-signed and what that means is they can't change, therefore the 'wrapping' system simply can't work.

We've also had a good deal of discussion about the 'wrapping' mechanism in general. Over time and via customer feedback we have observed that this way of working is not really what people want. It tends to cause session incompatibility, can result in crashing plugins sometimes and has created a huge maintenance burden with the sheer number of plugins out there.

 

So what do we plan to do about it? Well, we're talking to Avid. We believe the only way to tackle AAX plugin support properly is to integrate with Pro Tools directly. We firmly believe this is the best and only way to make AAX plugins work properly with our products.

When we created Automap it was a clever way to get around all the various methodologies that DAWs (Digital Audio Workstations) use to control plugins. As MIDI learn has become much more common and as Automap has dated we have brought in a new technology fairly recently with our Launch range of keyboards called InControl. What this means is we are removing the need for running an intermediate piece of software and instead talking directly to each DAW using either custom scripts or HUI. We have implemented basic mixer, track and transport control so far and we plan to develop this technology further to tackle plugin support.

While we continue to work towards a solution with Avid, it is still possible to work with Automap in ProTools for mixer and transport control even though it is not possible to control AAX plugins at this time. The setup guide for Pro Tools will take you through the steps needed to get this to work using a HUI control device.  

Finally, we will be changing our messaging in light of the release of Pro Tools 11 to clarify the fact that Pro Tools support is for mixer and transport only and does not include plugin control. We never had any intention of misleading customers but we accept that as things have progressed our messaging has become increasingly vague. This is something we are working to correct now.

I and the company sincerely value all your feedback so if you have any queries please do get in touch. I will be closely monitoring this thread. We also have one of the best music recording customer service departments in the world (I certainly think!), with a large team in the US and UK who have helped many Pro Tools users get the best out of their Novation products.

 

With best regards,
Paul Whittington
Senior Product Manager for Automap

oldskool
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Hi Novation team,

I own a couple of controllers and have always considered Automap and Remote SL's to be best in their class for controlling multiple DAWs and thier plugins.  I am excited to hopefully see new products in the higher-end controller market ranges from you that make use of your experience getting Automap to work so well with multiple DAWs.  Moving forward, Pro Tools 11+ compatibility is essential to my continued use of your products.  Is there a way in which we can help by contacting AVID and letting them know that Novation is an important partner and to please open the door to you?  Please let us know how you would have us reach out to AVID.  On the other hand, is there any possibility of Novation making the Remote SL and other controllers Eucon 3 compatible?  That would be pretty sweet, because an AVID S6 is destined for one of our rooms, and Novation consoles running Eucon or a fully compatible Automap in the other rooms would be fantastic.

Thanks, and keep innovating!

leigh
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Taylor wrote:
We have uncovered the complexity of the problem. Basically Automap works by 'wrapping' plugins which involves adding a small piece of code to each one to allow the Automap server to talk to it. AAX plugins are code-signed and what that means is they can't change, therefore the 'wrapping' system simply can't work.

Dear Paul,

The code-signing required by AAX has been known about for at least a year. It seems rather disingenuous for you to suggest that you are only now realizing that this will be an insurmountable hurdle for the Automap wrapping scheme.

Sincerely,
Leigh

curly430
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Leigh,

I completely see where you're coming from on this (trust me, it was my message to customer support that got this response!) but I think Paul is suggesting that it has been a problem within Novation since the AAX announcement.

It's not that they're only just discovering this problem, just that they're only just telling us they've discovered this problem.

leigh
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curly430 wrote:
It's not that they're only just discovering this problem, just that they're only just telling us they've discovered this problem.

Yes, that's what I'm saying too. And, why would they have waited over a year to tell us this?

Leigh

CrankMusicProd
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Wow Novation please be clear in your statment, don't give us a politician speech here please.

1-Are you going to make automape work for AAX anytime soon or you stopping the support for Automap?

2-Are you replacing rhe automap with the lunchkey technologie? If so are you going to make the SL MK II and Impulse II work with the same software you using for the lunchkey.

Please give me a clear answer since i just purchase two new of SL MK II

Yhank you

 

Taylor
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_____________________________________________________

Hi there,

 

We are actively working towards a solution with Avid, one that integrates with Pro Tools directly. We are focused on finding the best solution to AAX support. When we have a solution we will decide how that is best delivered but we do intend to provide the new support to SL MK II users.

 

Paul

_____________________________________________________

Jean
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Thank you Taylor,

I also just bought two of your products the SL MK II 61 and the SL 0MKII to use them with Pro Tools 10 and 11 AAX.

And the se are so very well build and nothing like the Axiom Air i just sold on Ebay.

Please keep the support for the SL MK II hardware with pro tools integration, give us the good news for christmas please.

As i just spent money on these too. We would appreciate your support for the SL MK II for pro tools 10/11 AAX.

Thank you.


CrankMusicProd
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Thank you for your quik reply

"We are actively working towards a solution with Avid, one that integrates with Pro Tools directly. "

" We are focused on finding the best solution to AAX support."

"we do intend to provide the new support to SL MK II users."

Those are three very encouraging Phrases, and we really appreciate you working on that.

Please focus on releasing some sort of support for SL MK II/Pro tools AAX. Especialy for

new Novation lovers like us

Thank you

PS:As a new comer to Novation, after trying a bunch of other controllers out there

trust me the SL MK II is a great piece of hardware.

 

 

CrankMusicProd
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Hello Taylor, since you created this thread so we expect you to reply hear quikly, not wai a year or so.

thank you

curly430
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Is the SL mkII range be the only current Automap product range you are planning on supporting? i.e. no Nocturn, Impulse etc.?

kellendustries
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curly430 wrote:

Is the SL mkII range be the only current Automap product range you are planning on supporting? i.e. no Nocturn, Impulse etc.?

 

I too would like to know about this (specifically, in my case, The Nocturn).  Thank you

 

 

curly430
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kellendustries wrote:

curly430 wrote:

Is the SL mkII range be the only current Automap product range you are planning on supporting? i.e. no Nocturn, Impulse etc.?

 I too would like to know about this (specifically, in my case, The Nocturn).  Thank you  

Just to let you know mate, I emailed Tech Support about this and got a response saying that was merely addressing the majority of the users requests here by mentioning the SL range. All other ranges are still good as usual including your nocturn :)

 

 

CrankMusicProd
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Hello Taylor, i hope you had a good Thanksgiving. Just to let you and Novation know that we are here

waiting, waiting and waiting for some sort of update for SL MKII AUTOMAP FOR PRO TOOLS 10/11 AAX

Thank you 

Raymondo
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Hi Paul and Taylor

I must admit to a little confusion over the Novation response to the question of the future of Automap. The original thread wasn't exclusively on AAX as the OP noted.  Rather it seems to me that there is a considerable gap in scope between "We have called a company meeting regarding Automap and its future.   We aim to have an official and honest response for you within 48 hours." and the tightly crafted "Novation Automap and AAX Plugin Support" response.

Novation/Focusrite is a significant company but this gap is more typical of a smaller operation.  A roadmap would be good.  I see in the job descriptions that Product Managers "Support the Senior Management Team in meeting agreed business goals by leading the generation of long term 3-5 year Product Roadmaps that meet  ambitious, but achievable company revenue growth targets."

I appreciate that control surfaces exist in a dynamic difficult space ... Cubase 7.5 is out today.  Some of the problems of the 'wrap' model are identified above.  Nektar is providing some competition. 

Some clarity would be appreciated.

Regards

Raymondo

 

Jean
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I just hope that they are not going to wait another month or so before giving us an update on this post.

Because this post was created by Taylor him self so.......

Hope you read your own post here Taylor.

Best regards

Jean

Taylor
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________________________________________

Raymondo,

 

We are actively working on Automap and have a beta version out at the moment. We are putting significant resource into Automap and continue to support all our Automap products.

 

I hope this helps and if you have any further questions then please feel free to contact our technical support team who will be glad to assist you further.

 

Best regards,

Paul

________________________________________

Taylor
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Hello all,

I can assure you I do read the forum in its entirety - this post will not be left forgotten.
Apologies for the delay in the response - I tarried when I should have passed on Paul's message as soon as I received it.

Sorry team,
Taylor

curly430
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Taylor wrote:

this post will not be left forgotten.

 

It seems it has.....

Jean
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We appreciate Good Company like you guys, this is what i call a Great Company NOVATION.

I will get more of your products in the months to come i'm gonna make my studio more NOVATION loock,

This phrase alone"Automap and have a beta version out at the moment" .

That quote makes me Kiss my SL MK II that i just got from GC last month. I mean i already love this keyboard

as the Keybed is the best that i have own, but today i love it more and more...i can't wait for Automap 5

Thank you Taylor

Thank you Paul

PS:We are waiting (Un) Patiantly.

kwild
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We hope you are also fixing various issues and strange random crashing caused by Automap wrapped plugins with Cakewalk Sonar X2 and do further test with Sonar X3.I've stopped using Automap months ago frustrated by all that weird crashes.

 

 

Jean
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I guess automap won't be ready for this christmas!

I was just checking, i hope it'll be here soon.

Roodillon
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I have a Remote SL 61 MKII. I recently updated to Pro Tools 11x. I already know that Automap does not work with .AAX plugins. I can live with that for now. However even the keyboard does not work in PT11 so I cannot play virtual instruments. I searched on the web and found that I am not the only one with this problem. Is this "normal" as far as Automap 4.7 goes? Or do I have to go back to my X-Station to play virtual keys or even buy a controller of a different brand? I have owned Novation controllers since 2003 but this is unacceptable. Can anyone tell me if this is a known issue and if it will be addressed? Before I sell this 61 key paperweight and buy M-Audio? PS - the controller works fine in Reason 7x and all other programs, keyboard and all.

Taylor
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Hello Roodillon,

Have you been in touch with tech support? They will be able to troubleshoot your connectivity issues and offer a resolution.
You can reach them via http://bit.ly/NovationSupport

Best wishes,
Taylor

Roodillon
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I did. Still waiting for a reply.

 

Taylor
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They'll get back to you as soon as they can! :)  

Jean
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This Automap update is taking looong now. Please don't act like M audio. A lot of us here switch from them to Novation because we were hoping that you guys are better on keeping your products up to date, and we still believe in you, but this is taking long now.

Please give us some update on this.

Regards

Jean
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Okay yesterday Avid has release Pro Tools 11.1.2

I try it on one of my PC Automap doesn't even do anything on this one. So i am wondering if Novation is doing anything in colaboration with Avid or they just trying to drag their feet just like M Adio is doing with hypercontrol. This is getting a little old here and a lot of frustration among us the customer.

Mr Taylor please give us some update on what you guys have done so far.

Thank you

Regards

seafoam green
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Hi Taylor ,

Im currently shopping around to buy a new 61 keyboard controller for use in my studio that is running  Pro Tools  11.1.2   AAX.

 

I have a very keen interest in the Novation 61SL MKII Controller Keyboard

..., but I dont want to go and buy myself another dead paperweight like the new controller keyboard I already own (and selling) from the other company. Nor do I want to get outdated before I start with Novation - by a new model that might be soon around the corner either.

 

Taylor , Could you please tell me ;

 

Q - If this Novation 61SL MKII will stay current for 2014 - as Novations  "top of the line" product for Controller Keyboards. Yes or No ?

 

..., and also ;

 

Q - Could you please confirm that there are NO "new secret weapons" planned for 2014 (NAMM ?), 

      ............, that will knock the 61 SL MKII  of its throne as Novations Premier Controller keyboard offering in both - Better Quality, and / or  Advanced technology and features for use with Pro Tools 11 and AAX compatibily

 

If there is a new model planned  for this year  (2014)  - then I'd like to hang out and wait for it . (Please,  Honestly "spill the beans" on this one ? )

 But .....,

 If the Novation 61 SL MKII is planned to be a continuation of Novations top shelf product for their Keyboard Controller models for 2014,

 

......., Then I also eagerly await with crossed fingers (hopefully soon)

 

 The connectivity between the Novation 61SL MKII - with AAX plugins and the planned direct integration with Pro Tools 11

 

 Regards  :) 

Dave

- Potential New Customer (and hopefully Novation fan)

Jean
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I can tell that Taylor has been here since my las post wich was done on 1/22/14 at 17:01, and still no answer.

Taylor
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Taylor
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We have a senior member of the R&D team in the United States today, trying to find a way forward.

We are actively pursuing this.

 

Thank you for your continued patience.   As ever, I will update you the moment I get more information.

Best,
Taylor

MarcusTheGreat
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Taylor wrote:

We have a senior member of the R&D team in the United States today, trying to find a way forward.
We are actively pursuing this.
 
Thank you for your continued patience.   As ever, I will update you the moment I get more information.Best,Taylor

    

Halo,

any news about support for AAX ?

How much time yet? I wonder I if I should look for another controller to go for PT 11 finally...

 

 

 

jetwolf
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I also just bought an Impulse 61 Key to use with my Pro Tools 11.1.2 only to find it is incompatible with the AAX plugins and even the mixer control has been buggy (which is supposed to work).   I need to know a firm answer on whether the Impulse is DEFINITELY  in the scope to develop AAX compatibility and won't be left by the wayside before my opportunity to return my keyboard elapses.  You can directly contact me at jetwolf@live.com

 

Also, a free version of Bass Station was included with my keyboard, which is also not compatible.  Any plans or alternatives to be able to use Bass Station as an AAX plugin??

 

Also, I was very disappointed to see no tollfree number provided for technical support for US owners.

Please show me I did not make a mistake choosing a Novation product.

Ple

thanks

Kevin

Jean
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 Pro Tools Hypercontrol Driver Now Available for the Axiom AIR Series 

Vive M AUDIO they killing novation by keeping up with their updates, now support Pro tools 11

NOVATION listen up!!!

Taylor if M AUDIO can do it you can do it to
Read more: http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2014/3/13/pro-tools-hypercontrol-driver-now-available-for-the-axiom-ai.html#ixzz2vwzN378b 
Follow us: @protoolsexpert on Twitter | protoolsexpert on Facebook

curly430
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Jean wrote:

 Pro Tools Hypercontrol Driver Now Available for the Axiom AIR Series Vive M AUDIO they killing novation by keeping up with their updates, now support Pro tools 11NOVATION listen up!!! Taylor if M AUDIO can do it you can do it toRead more: http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2014/3/13/pro-tools-hypercontrol-driver-now-available-for-the-axiom-ai.html#ixzz2vwzN378b Follow us: @protoolsexpert on Twitter | protoolsexpert on Facebook

M-Audio do have an unignorable advantage over all competition when it comes to embedding functionality within Pro Tools in Novation's defence, but this does go to show that this level of connection can be made to the new software.
However I cannot see in writing if this new version of Hypercontrol features control over AAX plugins or just over basic Pro Tools functionality. I assume both however.

 

 

 

 

Jean
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Helloooo...is Taylor here!!!!

ain't this suppose to be his post anyway.

comon we need some help at novation, if M Audio can do it you can do it too

mikenovation
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Please contact Novation support if you have any more questions or concerns.

http://us.novationmusic.com/answerbase/contact

 

 

curly430
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Mike, this thread exists for the sole purpose of Taylor (on behalf of Novation as a whole) keeping us - your customers - informed on when we will be able to use our hardware with current software. It is not unreasonable that we are starting to query your silence after such a potential major development.

This thread started as an apology for Novation not keeping us up to date. You have not been doing this again lately. Please do not be patronising enough to simply brush our worries elsewhere. Instead be thankful that we are containing them to within your own forum and not voicing our negative views of your customer service in public.

If you can enlighten us further on this issue please do, if not please remind Taylor or anyone else who can help that we are still here awaiting a response.

Dave.

Jean
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mike novation, as Dave stated clearly in a good english this:

 

curly430 wrote:

Mike, this thread exists for the sole purpose of Taylor (on behalf of Novation as a whole) keeping us - your customers - informed on when we will be able to use our hardware with current software. Dave.

 

Please don't push us to take this to your public sites like facebook and your other social networks and most music forums that we know, just like we did with M AUDIO.

Then after they took the heat, they came with an update quikly. I am just saying this because i like my MKII keyboard a lot but that doesn't mean that me and my freinds can't start to ask for our right to get the update of our software to be updated to support new softwares like pro tools 11.

So again please let Taylor know to keep us updated about this asap, because we are realy running out of patience.

Or we going to have to ask you on your facebook and other places. Again we seeing other companys doing it so why not you NOVATION.

Best Regards

Jean Lhomedeloi

 

sled
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Seriously???  ...Best Regards?

Quote:

Thanks for your email.

At this stage we have no news on possible support in the future for the Pro Tools AAX plugin format with our Automap software.

Best Regards,

Ben Ware // Novation Technical Support

curly430
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Cheers for adding that Sled.

Helpful, yet useless haha :) seriously though, thanks for letting us all know about that response.

Dave.

Jean
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Here's another one of those.

Thanks for your mail.

Our development team is looking into AAX compatibility with Pro Tools 11, but there is no current ETA on when that may be added. We listen to all of our users' requests though, and we know that this is a common request, so I will pass yours onto the R&D Team so they know it is still being actively requested.

Best,
--
Jordan Bennett // Novation Technical Support

By the way where is Taylor!!!!!

Let's get ready for a facebook,tweeter and other social networks complaints.

 

curly430
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It has been over two months since any contact from Novation within this thread (any that I am going to consider worth acknowledging anyway!)

I find this beyond disgusting for a company that formally apologised for lack of information and that claimed they would keep us up to date.

Novation, you have failed on this regard and I have had enough of possessing a piece of hardware that is now useless to me. Therefore I have decided to sell my Novation gear - several pieces of Novation equipment in fact.

I no longer care about your support for Automap. I do hope on behalf of all others struggling here that you remedy this issue asap.

But just so you know Novation, I will not be keeping my opinions within your forums. Will I be going out of my way to disgrace your customer support? No, frankly I don't have the time to waste on you. But whenever I see someone asking for opinions/help I certainly will not stay quiet.

I hope everyone else on here continues to get some joy out of their hardware, but I've decided to give up now.

All the best,

Dave.

Taylor
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In my last message, I promised I would update you all the moment I had any more information. I have not swayed from that promise, nor do I plan to.

I read this thread every single time there's a post (and even more often than that) and report the information to the relevant parties in the company, who are currently chasing this with all their might.  I have not posted simply because I have no new information for you all, and I respect you too much to try to placate you with marketing speak.

If you do choose to 'get ready for a Facebook, Tweeter and other social networks complaints' campaign, you will find yourself speaking to me once again - and I will make the same promise I have made here: the moment I have any more information for you, I will pass it on. 

If there's anything I can do in the meanwhile, whilst Novation does everything in their power to support AAX in Automap, please don't hesitate to let me know. I am here to help in any way I can.

Best wishes,
Taylor

P.S.  I'm very sorry to see you go, Dave.  Stay well, and please get in touch if there's anything I can do. :(

midi510
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I think If you were to just post every so often even to say you haven't made any progress, but are still working on it, would give people the sense that you care. I want to be able to use my Impulse 61 to control AAX 64 plugins, but would take UAD-2 AAX 64 first. I figure if so many companies are struggling with the issue, it must not be an easy one.

Taylor
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Hi all,
Just a quick update - I have no new news on this. We are continuing to pursue this with Avid, and I will bring back any further information I recieve.
Thank you all for your continued patience in this difficult situation.

Best wishes,
Taylor

gonk
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A question for Taylor.

I know you can't divulge much but "continuing to pursue this with Avid"? is a bit vague...are Avid playing hard to get?

As a Pro Tools user I'm very much aware of how difficult Avid can be, so is there anything "we" can do to get Avid's attention to further this?

I'm in the market for a keyboard/controller especially for plugins and your automap software is highly recommended and direct support would be fantastic.

 I have money burning in my back pocket right now and am pretty much sold on an SL mk2 but would appreciate a "guarantee" (for want of a better word) not so much from yourselves but after owning an Axiom mk1 and seeing M-audio/Avid drop support for that as quick as child caught in the Cookie jar, so am wary of their commitment especially to things non-Avid.

Jean
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Automap is out man no more questions this guy just get another controller there are many other good options out there.

These people are playing around.

JConstantine
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Example?

sled
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Ping.  Any good news?

mbheli
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Any news on AAXsupport for automap ?

 

I´m using automap in conjunction with Protools for several years now in my studio

Now I have migrated to Protools 11 and missing my "normal" workflow with operating more or less all my UAD plugins (and others) with automap

If there is anything we users can bring up to avid to get that problem solved , I´m pretty sure we will do this !

 

So Taylor , please use this option if it´s helpfull !

 

with best regards , Markus

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