The official Novation forum

New Mininova beta firmware is out!

As the Novation community has developed over the years, it has naturally found the bulk of it's voice on Social Media. To ensure we can be there to discuss and support you as best we can, we’ve decided to close the forum.

The conversation isn’t over, though. We’re waiting for you; come say hi.

Also, be sure to check out some of our friends.

As ever, thank you for your support.

Thanks for reading, The Novation Team

If you're having a technical difficulty, get in touch via http://bit.ly/NovationSupport and our technicians will get back to you as soon as they can!

69 posts / 0 new
Last post
Ted 3000
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:27

Standalone mode: Poly Init, turned the release knob from min to max to min while playing poly chords. Took a little fiddling, but eventually I found:

Some of the notes become stuck in maxium release even when the knob is down to zero. New notes keyed will respond to the zero release setting, but you can still hear the stuck notes.

Of course, even a maximum 127 on release will eventually decay away, but it takes a while. It's strange behavior, not how it should work. Any value less than the previous one should update the decay time, or to cause the notes to cut off, provided the new value would have caused the note to have decayed by that point in the envelope cycle. (Increasing should not cause already-decayed notes to re-appear)

I say this is yet another bug. Thanks, Bulaw!

Bulaw
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: 04/12/2013 - 20:34

Beta support said they were able to reproduce the problem. It was standalone, no latch.  When adjusting attack, decay, or release not all the notes of the chord played respond at the same. Going from long to short times, some notes stay at the longer value. This also happens with the filter envelope, and the other envelopes. 

skijumptoes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:22

Ah, so you guys would expect a note which was held out on a decay to be killed dead when you bring the release down eh?

That's interesting, and has opened my eyes to some playing techniques which i've never ever tried, or even thought about using!!!  You can get some really cool sounds doing this!

Notes are left hanging when dropping the release value - As i've never played in this style before i don't know if it's normal to do that or not?

I presumed the note would have the envelope characteristics that existed while the key was pressed and released - But, playing single notes proves that it does (And should?) affect an already playing note, however, playing more notes seems to be more prone to notes sounding out longer.

I would only alter ADSR envelopes when creating a patch, not during a performance - That's really introduced me into a new concept, i know it's not the place to be happy when a bug is found - but thanks for this! :)

Ted 3000
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:27

In a real voltage controlled envelope there would be no result possible EXCEPT for every note to follow the ADSR's levels, even when changed.

The voltage flows through the amp section and refects the current knob (or slider) positions. If the note has already hit the decay stage and you adjust the decay knob, the note will ring out with the new value. If you set it to zero wile still decaying, that kills the volage and no more audio. If you set it to maximum, then the note will sloooooowly fade out.

Since the Mini is digital, it isn't limited to analog-style behavior. But when it does something unexpected (like stuck decay settings) I consider it a bug. When it does something non-analog but great (like being able to sync oscillators virtually without having to give up an oscillator) I consider that very cool.

aman1981
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: 05/02/2013 - 21:38

@Ted 3000

whats the sequencer you use? today i tested the editor in ableton 9 at a friend and its no problem with this "jitter and lag with using editor while adjusting knobs" but in my cubase 5 i have this problem and the novation support told me this about the problem

Hi

Thank you for your email.

This is not a problem I'm aware of, which cutoff button are you referring to?

Does this happen with all of your patches or only certain ones?

What is the effect on the sound when the editor is open?

I hope that helps a bit

greetings

 

Ted 3000
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:27

I use Ableton Live 8. I've heard about it from other with Ableton.

Here's what happens with Lag:

If I have the USB connected and the editor running, and I turn the cutoff knob (not on the software editor, the actual hardware knob) the Mininova won't respond. Then suddenly, the cutoff value will jump to catch up. This is what I'm calling lag.

It's not subtle, it's like a second or two where the MiniNova is not being updated to it's own knob positions, since the MIDI data is being sent from the synth into the editor and back out again to the synth.

Jitter is what I refer to when the steady MIDI clock out of Ableton is picked up by the MiniNova, which reposnds by fluctuating between tempos of a few BMP's difference. It's not as bad as it was (improved massively in a previous beta OS release), but if you have a tempo-synced effect like delay the stairstepped values make little crackling clicks. Slew helps smooth it out for those parameters that have it.

Ted 3000
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:27

A sidenote: It's not always easy to say if something is a bug in the synth, something with Ableton, or imaginary...

I'm sure a few of the bugs I've described are Pilot Error or my own ignorance. But there's only a few brave MiniNovians here trying to document all the quirks and broken bits, and it seems like some of these issues are surprises to the support people.

I'd be happy if there were a few more MiniNova sleuths popping up. I'm hardly an expert but I must have every other post in this thread.

I just know that it does not take long for hardware to go from Brand New Baby to Still Supported to Cobweb and Dust Covered Legacy Product, and the time for OS fixes is now. I was an Ion user for a long time, and Alesis stopped supporting and developing while there were still outstanding known issues.

There's been a lot of progress in Beta and the MiniNova is very usable even with the quirks.

skijumptoes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:22

aman:-

In my testing the midi lag is much less a problem in ableton than other DAW's.... It's just an occasional pain in Ableton, but a complete no-go in Logic/cubase/reaper because it not only delay's, but usually never catches up at all despite the GUI updating on the editor screen!

The issue occurs as soon as the mininova goes into midi LOCAL OFF mode, when using the plugin editor it automatically puts the mininova into this state.  Which is why it appears to be editor related.

Sadly, even if you could leave LOCAL ON and use the editor at the same time, this would cause duplicates of the notes playing back when recording, as they would play internally on the keyboard, and once again on the return from your daw.

The only way i've found of being able to record without lag is to set up a manual midi track (Without editor plugin) then you're able to set the mininova to LOCAL ON but don't have any output set in your daw as the sound will be generated 'locally' - This way you can record it fine without the duplicate issue, and all the controls work as required.

Although, the pain comes in that after recording you need to set the midi output to the mininova for playback.  As you're not using the editor this also doesn't make automation nice as it's not labelled up as per the editor.

Novation are definetly aware of the problem though, so hopefully it won't be long until we get a fix.

In all honesty, i think the LOCAL OFF mode isn't functioning as it should - I say this because if you use the mininova purely as a controller for a plugin instrument for example, and assign the knobs to that plugin instrument - The internal synth engine in the mininova will still react to the controls that you move, and i'm not sure it should as the whole point of local off is to seperate the controls from the synth engine.

At the moment it seems that LOCAL OFF is only disabling the note data, mod wheel and pitch bend from being processed locally... everything else is!  (i.e. set the filter cut off to the mod wheel and there's no lag whatsoever when used in conjunction with the editor!)

So, when we put that behaviour in the context of using it with a daw, it's basically reacting to local knob changes as you tweak - and then also those coming back from the daw.... which are the same messages, only a split second later.

Therefore, all i can think in relation to why ableton is better - Maybe it's much more efficient with midi data than other daw's? ...or possibly the reverse? Maybe it's slower at returning the data and thus gives the mininova breathing space to process this data!?! Who knows!!?

mig.1963
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 10 months ago
Joined: 05/08/2013 - 02:40

So far to me it's all a myth., where can I download the firmwares??? where Do I download the software editor? I just have the mininova librarian that crashes all the time.  Can someone tell where I can download these goodies????

Ted 3000
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:27

mig.1963: Get the latest Beta (lots of fixes) here:

http://beta.novationmusic.com/

Older official version here:

http://us.novationmusic.com/support/downloads

MIDImatik
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 04/19/2013 - 14:30

The Filter is still Messi...

The Movement is recognised by the Mininova, but i cant hear the sound changing until the filter makles a real big jump... Annoying...

skijumptoes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:22

MIDImatik - Yup, that's the real big issue for me too, it really makes it unusable for recording for me. 

You can get round it by doing the following:

1. Create a midi track.

2. Set the midi input as mininova.

3. Leave the output as none, and DO NOT load the editor on the track.

4. Now, Ensure the mininova is set to LOCAL ON (On the mininova press the Menu button and enter into Global settings - it's in there).

Now you can record and the filter knob changes can be adjusted as per normal without lag.

This works as you are using the mininova standalone, without relying on the daw's midi channel, but it is still set up to send the midi data out to record.

Just to note: To playback the recorded track you will need to set the midi output of the track to go out to the mininova, at this point you can also add the editor plugin too if you want to tweak the sound via the editor.

I hope that helps! It's how i'n currently having to run which isn't ideal.

MiloMac
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: 03/20/2013 - 14:10

Hey all

Just letting you know we are still busy working hard on another update for the MiniNova and we hope to release it soon.

We are keeping track of this thread so if you find another bug please continue to post it up here.

We appreciate your patience and feedback up to now.

sane
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 06/06/2013 - 11:25

MiloMac wrote:

Hey all
Just letting you know we are still busy working hard on another update for the MiniNova and we hope to release it soon.
We are keeping track of this thread so if you find another bug please continue to post it up here.
We appreciate your patience and feedback up to now.

 

Hey :), When i have my mininova connected to anything as a midi slave (drum machine or soundcard DAW etc) and the arp is running a sequence on the nova, when i stop the master (drum machine/soundcard DAW) etc shouldn't the arp sequence stop, and then start again in time when i hit run on the master? at the moment i stop the master track playing and while every other piece of hardware/software stops, the nova just keeps running the arp sequence as if its not been sent a stop signal, makes it impossible to predict where the arp notes will fit in with the track.. rendering the arp/latch thing pretty much useless... should the sequence not start and stop in time with the master sequencer? am i being daft or what?, thanks

Ted 3000
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:27

Arpeggiations don't respond to start and stop. This is totally normal Arp behavior. Arps are like an effect that simulate a repeating pattern played on a keyboard, totally internal. They are not traditional sequences.

The MiniNova WILL sync the internal arpeggiation to MIDI clock. And you can send arp MIDI data out of the MiniNova into something else. But that's it.

To have the MiniNova respond to transport controls, you need to feed it a MIDI sequence. That sequence can even be an arpeggiation you recorded out of the MiniNova. Then when you hit play or stop on that sequence, the slaved Mini will respond. But it won't be the arpeggiator you are using at that point.

skijumptoes
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:22

Ted, I have 2x Roland synths that start and stop the Arp's in realtime based on external sequencer controls.... But they also both have sequencers on board, so i imagine the difference there is that the arp is part of the onboard sequencer, and as such has a concept of midi timecode. Although i'm not really sure! lol

All i know is that the standards exist for this kind of communication for devices to synchronise (Section B here: http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/Dave/Multimedia/node158.html )

Personally i'm quite happy with the tempo sync as it is, but have also wondered whether it's possible to sync it to a start/stop sequence message.  But decided that even if this were possible you would still be left with hanging notes as the latch would stay on.

Think we need to accep that this little bugger is already punching above it's weight and there are going to be limits as to what it can do in terms of the bells and whistles found on 2-3x more expensive units.

Ted 3000
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 8 months ago
Joined: 03/26/2013 - 13:27

Hmm! Well, it does not sound too hard to implement! Channel Mode messages could be monitored to control the arp.

I use my arp all the time but usually not with any other gear, sometimes an electribe, With only 2 instruments to control, it's not hard to get starts and stops sync'd.

IpseDixit
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: 04/09/2013 - 03:59

Beta 1.3b4 is out today (5/31). Here's the listed changes:  

 

Updates firmware to 1059

Fixes:

- Fixed MIDI Sync drift issues
- Fixed issue when menu would time out even when using data encoder
- C1 Gain, L1 InOut, L2 InOut, VT Mode and VTInsert now send on correct NRPN
- Diode/Valve Distortions found to be equal between firmware 1004 and firmware 1059

Note:

- Diode/Valve distortions perceived as louder in previous versions due to issue with Distortion compensation. Fixed in 1.3b3

 

As always, thanks Novation for keeping these betas coming!

Pages